17 Years of Coaching: A Podcast’s Role In Staying Relevant with Dr. Amy Johnson

Welcome to Profits Through Podcasting, the show for entrepreneurs with podcasts who want to monetize by generating leads and profits for their business from podcasting. I’m your host, joel Oliver, ceo of East Coast Studio. While countless podcasts exist in virtually every niche and genre imaginable, one area where they seem to shine is in coaching businesses. Whether it’s a solopreneur operation or something a little bigger, podcasts are quite common amongst coaches of varying fields, from nurturing relationships and building trust to networking and repurposing content for marketing. Podcasts offer a wealth of benefits and make a lot of sense for entrepreneurs in the coaching space. Our guest today started her coaching business in 2007.

Dr Amy Johnson is a psychologist by training who has built an incredible online business that serves her needs and is in alignment with the life she wants to live. At this point, amy has momentum on her side. While she started with a lot of blogging, she has since written books, began a long-running newsletter and launched the highly rated Changeable podcast, to name just some of the methods she uses to share her message and generate business. Amy’s primary offering is the Little School of Big Change, an online school that has helped thousands of people find freedom from anxiety and unwanted habits and live a more peaceful life. In this episode, we’ll dive into how the business works and the role her podcast plays within that. She shares some great insight for how to create weekly podcasts and newsletters for years while never running out of ideas, how the podcast helps her screen ideal clients, and how she’s running a great business without the hustle mindset. So, amy, you’ve got.

What I would say at this point is the empire built. That’s how I see it. We’re going to get into how all that’s running, but I’m going to back up a little bit first, because I know you’re just rounding out 300 episodes of the Changeable podcast. Did you start that in 2018? Did I find that date right? Yes, august of 2018.

Okay, quite a while. So I know you to be extremely consistent with publishing that. You’ve got a very big audience that’s looking forward to every new episode. You’re putting them out consistently. So take us back to 2018, when you launched that podcast. What were your reasons, your goals behind doing that? Like, what got you?

interested in doing a podcast. Yeah, I had been kind of doing whatever people were doing. So I started my business in 2007. And at that time everybody was blogging. That was just what you did to share. So I was blogging like crazy.

And then blogging turned into writing some books, it turned into social media and YouTube videos and it’s kind of crazy that, you know, I remember all of these things kind of as they started and then, before 2018, for sure podcasting became a thing and I sort of you know it was on my radar.

I kind of had this sense of like I’m sure I’ll do that at some point also because it just it was just another venue and that’s all I’m ever looking for is just more ways to reach people and to share what I have to share. So I knew it was a venue that I hadn’t tapped. Yet I did have a little resistance, I remember, because I put so much into writing and videos and I remember kind of feeling like gosh, am I going to learn a whole new other thing? And and content wise, you know, how was that going to work in terms of would there be exclusive content on the podcast that was different from videos and writing? And I didn’t get answers to all those questions, I didn’t have clarity. I just said I’m just going to start it and just see what happens. So I started it, yeah, in 2018, thinking I’m just going to start to teach what I teach and just put it out on the podcast and all the other pieces will kind of fall into place, and that’s kind of what’s happened.

Great, okay. So, yeah, that’s great. You’ve kind of evolved and managed to stay relevant, maybe through those different platforms and keeping up with those. So I know you launched a little school, a big change. That was 2017, correct, yeah, okay. So like a little before the podcast, but you mentioned you started your business in 2007. So let’s just touch on that briefly. We’ll get further into the business, but at that point, when the Little School of Big Change started and the podcast, what was your career looking like there? What was that business you started?

Yeah, so it’s been coaching the whole way through and just for many years it was a lot of one-to-one coaching. I do some groups and some courses, but then I wrote a few books. I wrote a book in 2016 that got a fair bit of attention, and that’s when I just got kind of too busy that I couldn’t do all the one-to-one. So that’s when I created the little school, a big change, which is, you know, a lot of people have gone through that, but it obviously allows me to kind of, you know, teach and help a lot of people at once. So there’s just been a natural evolution from really one-to-one to larger groups and courses and things like that.

Got it, so you’re a psychologist, right?

Yes, yeah, psychologist by training. Yeah.

Right, I was curious were you ever doing what we would typically associate as a psychologist, like in a practice, or it was always coaching as soon as you were done the education?

It was always coaching, because partway through my education I sort of realized, yeah, this is close, it’s like as close as I could see to get, but it just wasn’t. Really I didn’t want to be diagnosing and dealing with insurance and that type of thing. I liked the bigger picture and the more freedom that coaching allowed for to kind of see people’s health and work with different things. So yeah, I finished out my education but then just went right into coaching.

Interesting. So right away in 2007, let’s say you start that, how are you finding people to work with then? How are they discovering you?

Yeah, Gosh, I don’t even know. It’s kind of like a miracle at this point to think back. How was it? But, like I mentioned, I mean really the big thing I was doing was blogging. So I had a website. And it’s just funny to think like even back then, obviously, there was the internet and lots of websites, but not anything like there is today. So even in 2007, I mean, I was blogging started a couple times a week. I got up to probably four or five times a week. I was publishing new stuff on my blog and it was just getting attention somehow. So I don’t know. I started an email newsletter back then which still goes on today. I haven’t let it go for a single week without putting out my newsletter since 2007. So, yeah, just kind of some of those methods.

That’s, yeah, very inspirational to those of us who say haven’t started a newsletter but think that we should, and to see you’ve been doing it for nearly 20 years. We wish I had started that long ago. So that’s yeah, that’s great momentum. We’ve been talking about the business here, but we’ll get into that further. I just want to have a final question about the podcast. So the content that you actually put out. I’m correct in saying that it’s a mix of solo and interview style episodes, is that right?

Yes, it’s evolved. It’s more solo these days, but yeah, in theory, I still do have guests sometimes and most of the episodes are just me.

Got it. And when you do have guests, are those experts or are they clients of yours? Who are those people?

It’s both some experts and you know, yeah, probably about 50-50. So some experts and some clients who are sharing their stories.

Okay, great, so we’ll dive into the business a bit more here. It’s great background to hear kind of how it started and evolved. So you’ve got the little school of big change. That’s your main business activity, correct, yes, okay, so tell us who is that for and what it does exactly Like. Let’s hear the background on what that offering is and what it does exactly Like.

Let’s hear the background on what that offering is. Yeah, so that, as everything and as it should, I’m sure, has evolved a lot also. But I initially started the school. I wrote a book called the Little Book of Big Change, which is around a really new way of seeing habits and anxiety. So, in a nutshell, rather than diving into these things and thinking like I have this habit and I have to make it change, or I have anxiety and that’s a problem and I need to make it change, it’s really looking a little bit deeper at how everything is constantly changing.

And that’s the idea behind Changeable is to share how everything is always changing in life, like all the time in every possible way in life, like all the time in every possible way. And we have these minds that like to generalize and take snapshots of things, and so the mind will tell you you are this kind of person and you are stuck and you are not changing. Everyone else might be, but you aren’t. And so it really the book and the course, the Little School, big Change course it all really kind of just walks people through this bigger exploration, this bigger understanding of how, like we’re healthy by nature. We weren’t born with habits. We don’t even have them now, when we aren’t thinking so much. And really our problem, if you want to put it that way, is that we’re very mind-identified, we believe our thoughts and our thoughts are habitual, but we’re essentially healthy. So that’s a very big picture, but that’s kind of what the Little School of Big Change does for people.

Interesting and something that comes to mind there is that seems like it could be beneficial for pretty much anybody. Is that the approach that you’ve taken to your marketing and who you’re trying to speak to here? Or is there kind of more of a smaller subset of people that you personally try to target or you find really enjoy and get value from your program?

So initially I feel like I was speaking really to people who had a habit or anxiety and had tried everything, because this is a really different way of looking at things. So and that was me too, by the way, that’s why I do this work is that I was in that situation, trying everything and getting no relief. So that was kind of the target at one point is like, if you have this issue, you’ve tried everything. Here’s a brand new way to look at things Now, just the way that things have evolved.

If anything in my marketing and I’d say that kind of loosely or just in my messaging I’m just looking for people who are curious about how life works. Yes, many of them still have a habit or anxiety, because we’re human and people do, so people are still going to have something they’re struggling with. But I’m speaking less to that in my marketing, I guess, and more to like just what’s possible for all of us and just the fact that we truly don’t really know anything. Our minds tell us we know everything about who we are and how life works and we just don’t. And so people who you know are interested in that message and are open-minded enough to really want to see things in a radically different way. That’s kind of more who I feel like I speak to now.

Okay, you have two options here, right A self-study where it’s kind of at your own pace, and then there’s also a scheduled program where it’s guided and there’s a start time.

Yeah, yeah and the scheduled program. We’ll see. I’ve been running that twice a year since 2017. So that’s typically the schedule. It’s been on. The self-study is there all the time.

Okay, and price-wise or payment-wise, rather, these are just a one-time, upfront type thing. That’s how they get involved. Yes, yeah, got it. So I noticed too, in addition to the Little School of Big Change, you also do coach training, so you’re teaching other coaches and you’ve got several online courses at this point, so can you just briefly give us some insight on those? Is that something that you promote actively or it’s just kind of there, like how does it make up your overall business?

Yeah, so historically the little school, a big change and then the coach training were kind of the two flagship things. So there’s kind of those two paths but, as you mentioned, it’s really just kind of evolving in sort of a way that I don’t have a major plan for, to be honest, but I have a community of people where we’re talking with the community all the time and supporting them. I do different courses. Just when a topic feels really exciting to me, or maybe when the community is asking to hear more about something, I’ll put up a one-off, you know, maybe a six-week course or a three-week course. So all of that contributes. I would still say that the Little School, big Change and the coach training are the main revenue sources and really where most of my energy goes. But then in between those I do a little bit of private coaching still, I just kind of offer and do what I feel like doing at the moment.

It’s great to have that freedom.

I mean, I know that sounds like to someone who has like a business plan. That might sound crazy, but that’s how I’ve always run my business. I do what I’m excited about and it seems to work out.

That’s very inspirational to people that want to work in that way to see that it’s worked for you. We hear a lot today about recurring revenue and I know you brought that about a little while back, correct? You do have a subscription, and what does that involve? Like, what do people get with that?

I have a few actually, so I have what we call the community. So for $39 a month, it’s graduates of the little school of big change who now just want to stay involved in this. So yeah, there’s about 150 people at any given time in the community. They get calls, forum guest speakers. I have something else where people can join just to get access to all of my digital courses. So, as you mentioned, over the years I’ve just created a lot of content because I just enjoy doing it on different topics, and then I have a membership for my coaches. So I’ve trained about 120 coaches at this point, and so there are some of them not all, but many of them are off working as coaches, and so we have twice a month calls with them and then just different resources and support for them when it comes to their business or their coaching.

One final question on this I wanted to touch on. You just mentioned that you have some coaches that work with you as well. I was curious. Clearly, this is not a one person operation at this point, but could you tell us a little bit about how that looks like, the size of your team or who you have and what roles are assisting you in making this all work?

Around this time last year I cut back quite a bit. So right now I have one woman who works for me full time. She’s kind of an operations manager was her role, was kind of her title before. But she also does a lot of customer service help. She also has some big picture business help ideas. So she’s kind of my main person right now. And then I have a part-time customer service person who’s answering emails and doing that and then just you know tech people and stuff like that. But a year ago before I went down, I had a team of seven. So I had like a social media person, a business development manager, who kind of looked at the big picture of things. So I had like a social media person, a business development manager, who kind of looked at the big picture of things and then like operations and customer support.

Okay, interesting. Is there any reason why you decided to make that decision, or were you just kind of comfortable with the size of things and saw we could streamline it?

Yeah, I really felt a nudge to streamline and to simplify and to get back. I think the team grew in an attempt to really turn the school into something and as we kind of started moving in that direction, I think I probably thought I don’t know that I need it to be that. You know, it was like a great idea, it was good. But I mean, I just got really honest with myself about what I want my day to day to look like, what I enjoy doing, and I wanted that flexibility that I mentioned to be able to just do what I want to do when I want to do it. So that’s when I kind of just streamlined it freedom and it sounds like you’ve really achieved that.

So that’s a great story. And now that we’ve got that background there, let’s talk a little bit about how the podcast and the business come together. If you don’t have the data on this, you’re not really sure, because I know some of the specifics can be hard. That’s fine, but let’s just see what what you might have with the podcast. What sort of role would you say that plays in your overall marketing effort? Like, is this more of a trust builder for you at this point, or is it directly bringing you new leads?

I think it’s all of that. I know for sure that it’s a trust builder. So I think of it and I don’t know that this is accurate if we were to really look at the data. But I feel like and I’m pretty sure it’s like a long runway sort of thing, because all the time I hear from people like I just did an event in Denmark last month and people I’ve never met before said I’ve been listening to your podcast for five years and that’s why I’m here and I hear that all the time. So I know that doesn’t mean people aren’t finding it and buying things right away and all of that. But I know for sure that it does have that long runway trust building kind of aspect to it for sure.

And to answer your question, I don’t really know because I don’t like, other than that I don’t look at a lot of the data on it.

To be honest, I just because I know I’m going to do it either way.

So I don’t really look to see exactly what it’s doing. But in addition to the trust and all of that weeding people out because, like I said, a lot of what I share is kind of counterculture in a sense, it’s not what people are used to, if somebody’s going to listen to my podcast, like they know what they’re getting into when they come to one of my courses, and that’s really important to me because otherwise, for a lot of reasons even just practical reasons, like I don’t want to deal with refunds and this isn’t what I thought it was so even just in those ways, I mean it just feels really good and I’m not doing it because I have to, but it almost feels like a really important part of my business in terms of attracting the right people. And then I do. You know, I have a promo at the end of every episode, so I am always promoting something. And from what I hear and I don’t have a lot of data on this, but from what I hear those are really effective. They tell people what’s going on.

That’s very interesting because just when I think I covered a list of every possible benefit from a podcast, that’s a new one I hadn’t really considered or thought of Just that. Filtering people and screening so you have the right people coming into your business, and that long runway where you’re kind of nurturing them, like, let’s say, they’re going to buy from you every now and then or whatever the case. They want to still be following you and seeing what you’re up to and keeping that relationship. So, like you said, you go to Denmark and they’re there, they’ve been listening to you this whole time. I was curious to, outside of the podcast, if you had any idea of where a substantial amount of people might come from. So maybe we don’t, but, like you said, you publish books. You’ve got the Facebook page, which is it’s around 50,000 people on there. Is that right? Yeah?

I mean I do. You know I do have someone who looks at my analytics and stuff. I get quite a bit of organic traffic, even because of the blogging. That goes all the way back to 2007. Google likes my website so that helps. So you know we look at a lot of that but there isn’t anything ever that’s like the big standout. I mean, a lot of the Facebook stuff was back when Facebook. I was doing Facebook advertising and I don’t put a lot into social media these days. I just really kind of focus it more on the podcast. And again, even the analytics don’t show a clear path but they do show really consistency with the podcast. So I think it’s a big piece.

You’re definitely enjoying the fruits of the labor of building a business over this kind of time horizon. All that momentum that you achieved over this time is paying off for you now, which is great. So I had this question specifically about the podcast. But now, kind of knowing your blogging background, and that started around 2007 and you’re doing a weekly newsletter what would you say helps you consistently come up with new topics? Because you’ve got not just the podcast to think about but all these other outlets and you’ve been doing it for quite a long time. How have you not run out of inspiration or how do you continuously come up with things to talk about and share?

Yeah, in a practical sense, like just tracking all these ideas. I’ll tell you where I think the ideas maybe come from, but just tracking them. The notes app on my phone is just ridiculous and it’s and has been forever. I mean, I’m just constantly out in the world. Just you know, any idea, anything, and a lot of those don’t turn into content, but a lot of them do, and I just always tell people that because I think that’s important.

I think we get ideas and then our mind’s like, oh no, everybody’s done that already, or I already. Even for me, like I just recorded an episode that I kind of recorded on a very, very similar topic not that long ago. But who cares? Like I have a slightly fresh take on it now and people, I just don’t have that level of everything has to be perfect anymore. I think when you’re doing this much content, you just go with inspiration and people are going to get what they get. So I’m always tracking ideas and my mind is not filtering them out quite so much, which I think is good.

And then just where the ideas come from. I mean, I guess two things. One, I’m constantly talking with people, so whether it’s in our community, even if I’m not leading a course at the time. I have some private clients, we have our community where I’m just always, always seeing what people are up against. I just see the thoughts and they’re so consistent. That’s the beauty of being a coach for this many years is you really don’t get duped by your own worries anymore because you see that every human has the exact same worries, like our minds are pretty consistent and predictable. So when that stuff comes up, it’s just content, it’s just coming from all over the place, from my clients and also from me, and that’s a lot of what fuels what I share. I think at heart I do this work because I’ve always been a seeker myself, so I’m constantly reading, going to retreats, kind of seeing more of myself, and then it just gives a ton of stuff to work with.

That’s great, yeah. I mean you’re living an interesting life when you’re in contact with that many people and always learning and going through these things. So it makes sense that you you’re not short on ideas. Could you tell us a little about the system that you’ve got in place for the podcast in terms of managing that, scheduling the guests that you do have on, or just keeping track of what you need to record and having that run like a well-oiled machine?

Yeah, that piece of it, although I do have people that work with me and do a lot of the back end stuff I do. Besides, you obviously like you and I are the whole podcast. My helpers don’t help with that too much. So basically, if I have a guest, I just email the guest and get it scheduled. I have the running list of all the ideas. I also have a Google Doc that has like episode 303, here’s an idea for it and so I just kind of keep that filtering and then when I have space in between calls and groups and stuff, I just go put some time into that and I’m just fleshing out the content, writing the short descriptions and then recording when I can.

So I don’t have a super regimented schedule for it. Some weeks I have some blocks of time and I’ll record two, three, sometimes four episodes in a week. Other weeks I can’t do anything with it. Other weeks I want to sit outside. So I’m more like writing the descriptions and making the little graphics in Canva and I’m not in this office recording at all. So it kind of just does what it does and that sounds very vague, but in my mind I have a sense of what needs to happen, and right now I’m geeking out on the fact that I’m like a month ahead. I love being a month ahead, I just love it. So that’s just my own motivation that kind of keeps me keeping all those pieces chugging along.

You’ve definitely got an air of calmness about you and that’s been some interesting insight into this type of business Because, as we chatted about, you were actually able to downsize your team and continue having the business move in the direction that you want and fulfilling all of your goals. For people who are kind of thinking that they’ve got to do the opposite, like there’s got to be big systems and stress and people working for you Could you give us any thoughts on how you, how you just seem so calm, like everything is just together here and there’s no big secret or way of doing things. How have you achieved that?

I think, seeing first of all that all those details don’t really matter. I mean, you just said it, a lot of it is kind of this mindset that we think we have this. People have this hustle mindset and I just think it’s ridiculous. I mean, if you want to have that mindset, if that fuels you and you enjoy it, fine. I don’t want to hustle, I want to do what I want to do and I always laugh when I say that because I feel like I sound kind of like spoiled or something. And of course I do a lot of things in my business that I maybe don’t want to do or I have over the years. But at a certain point I just really prioritize, like what feels good and right to me and how to do it, like working in a way that feels good and right to me.

I have been very consistent with the podcast and with other things, but I’m consistent because it just feels easy. If it doesn’t go out for a month, fine, it’s not the end of the world. And I think sometimes people see other people and think, oh, I have to be like that. But the truth is you can skip weeks. You can not have perfect consistency. Things are OK, it’s just that we tell ourselves they’re not and then we stop the podcast altogether or something crazy like that. Just do what you do and see if you know the rhythm doesn’t show up.

So a final question, and I think we kind of covered this, but I still want to ask it anyway. No-transcript, probably back when there wasn’t so much competition, so that helped, and now your tenure at doing this has helped. But do you have any insight on someone? If they were to start today, what would you say could be some advice for them on how they should go about things to stand out and get to the place where you are?

I think don’t try to be someone else and don’t try to be even like someone else. This is what I love about how things have evolved is that it fits my personality well too, as you’ve noticed, like I don’t want to get all caught up in some perfection about anything, and the beauty is that we don’t have to. Yes, some podcasts are amazingly produced. That’s fine. Mine are not, and they’ve done the job. So I just say that, like it doesn’t have to be like a whole production. It can be if you’re super into that. If you’re not into it, just do what you do. So that’s just what I think is cool about all of this marketing stuff. These days. There’s a ton of competition and a ton of noise out there, but what rises to the top is just authenticity and doing it your own way. Podcasting can just be fun and creative when it can really share something that’s super valuable for people. But if we’re in our heads trying to make it look like somebody else’s podcast, it’s just not going to work.

Great insight. Well, dr Amy Johnson, thank you so much for your time. You’ve got your website, dr Amy Johnson dot com. I guess that’s the best place to find you, and we’ll put your social links in the show notes as well. So thank you so much.

Thank you for having me and thank you for everything that you do for Changeable.

Join us again next time on Profits Through Podcasting, for more tips on how to turn your podcast into a lead and revenue generation machine for your business, and if you’re ready to let a team of professionals handle your entire podcast production workflow so you can focus on the most important tasks in your business. Visit eastcoaststudiocom. Slash apply.