How Podcasting Attracts Weight Loss Coaching Clients with Siobhan Key

[00:00:00] Today’s guest has focused largely on paid social ads for her weight loss coaching business, since it launched over five years ago. Chavonne key is the owner of weight solutions for physicians and hosts the thriving as a physician podcast, both of which were launched at the same time. Running the business successfully for all these years required Chavon to constantly evaluate the direction of her business and identify new opportunities. She’s collected quite a bit of knowledge when it comes to what works and what doesn’t for lead generation, you’ll be particularly interested to hear about some of the unexpected ripple effects that she’s seen with her podcast, from other marketing activities and exactly how she’s determined, what types of programs to offer and shifts to make, to keep her business relevant. I’m Joel Oliver. And this is profits through podcasting. Chevonne welcome in.

Thanks for having me. I’m excited.

I want to set the stage first. We’ll talk briefly about your business and then the podcast just to get an idea of what it is you actually do [00:01:00] and the history here. So let’s start here with the business. When and why did you start the business that you have now? And was it always specifically for female physicians or did it evolve?

Let’s hear about that.

Yeah, so I started the business back in January 2019. And it always, this business always has been for female physicians for a couple of reasons. One is having been a female physician who really struggled with weight and eating, , It’s really hard to find help and it’s hard to find help that understands and that you can actually talk openly about.

Physicians have a whole lot of shame and stuff around the fact that they’re struggling with their eating because we think we should have it figured out because we went to med school. It’s not actually true, so I was doing obesity medicine locally and I wanted to be able to offer something to physicians and so doing something on a virtual platform worked so that I could help anybody, anywhere.

the general model of the business started kind of as it is. What’s changed is just when I started I did one on one [00:02:00] coaching for physicians. And now it’s more group coaching.

Okay, great. And we’re going to get into a little deeper as well, just to hear a bit more about how that works. But I love that whole concept too, and the niche, you know, we need to make people aware that you don’t need to be afraid to go into a niche, it’s actually beneficial, so like you said, you know, there wasn’t a lot of information out there. for female physicians relating to this topic. So you didn’t just have a general weight loss business that you started. You went right for that niche now I want to set up with the podcast as well, thriving as a physician.

You launched this podcast in 2019, which is that corresponding exactly with the same time that you launched the business? You did them both.

I did them both at the same time. Basically, with the idea that the podcast was going to be how I would advertise and build trust in a relationship with people in order for them to consider coaching.

And now you already mentioned that you were originally doing more one on one coaching. Now it’s [00:03:00] evolved into more group coaching. So let’s dive into a few more details on that. the business itself. He said it’s weight solutions for physicians, but I know you’ve got say the thrive academy for physicians.

You’ve got the binge freedom bootcamp. So let’s just expand on those a little more. So we understand a bit more about how you actually deliver these things in your business and what the offerings are specifically.

Yeah, so currently the only paid offering I have is the Thrive Academy for Physicians. So that one’s a six month in depth small group program for physicians where in the span of the six months, we completely transform their relationship with food. So they can go from feeling very out of control to having moments where they’re like, I don’t I didn’t even think about it and I didn’t end up eating those cookies that were sitting there.

And that’s really what we go for when I’m working with people. I do lots of free work in the Binge Freedom Camp. That was like a free kind of month boot camp for people who are struggling with binge eating. Because that’s a sort of a sub niche within what I do. [00:04:00] I help physicians who deal with all sorts of eating stuff, but binge eating is its own specific topic.

thing that has extra layers of isolation and shame attached to it. So I, I do some extra work for, for binge eating. Thrive Academy is like very direct with me. You get a lot of my support. I’m working on developing a standalone, like self directed to help people with evening eating.

And that one’s going to be not just for physicians because it’s More, more self directed, I’m opening it up to everybody because evening eating is one of those sort of mysteries, like people can go through their day feeling like, I’m doing okay, and maybe today’s the day everything’s going to change, and then 5 p.

m. they’re like, ah, screw it, and then they just, they feel like they lose everything they had worked hard on throughout the day over the span of the evening and can’t figure out why they’re stuck in that pattern, but there’s really good reasons, and when you actually address the real reason instead of just trying not to eat things get [00:05:00] better.

So that’s, I’ve been working on that, that’s a little extra project, but right now it’s just the Thrive Academy.

Okay, great. I was curious too. So you, you clearly saw some sort of need or audience for say the binge freedom bootcamp or the evening eating program that you’re working on now. How did you identify that and decide this is something that’s worth pursuing or expanding on?

 so slightly different for those two things, evening eating is something I’ve talked about in different forms for quite some time, and that one is born out of almost everybody I’ve worked with. brings that up as an issue. Like it’s, it’s a very kind of universal thing. Non physicians too. But for physicians, I think our days are so packed and are run kind of like a marathon that the evenings the first time you have a chance to like, be like relax but you’re exhausted and you’ve been stressed because of everything you’ve been dealing with.

And then it makes sense that your brain turns to food. And if you can become more consistent in the evenings. in ways that [00:06:00] feel really good, then it starts to be easier to reach your goals. Like that, that lack of consistency in the evenings can be a real barrier. The binge eating, I got into by having some physician clients who struggled with binge eating.

And getting curious about it, because even when I did my obesity medicine training and certification Binge eating, they talk about it, but there’s not a lot of like, what do you actually do? Like, so for somebody who has binge eating, for those of you listening who are like, what is binge eating?

It’s, when somebody has binge eating, it’s episodes of eating where they feel very out of control and they eat larger amounts than normal. Often to the point of feeling really physically uncomfortable, and they can’t stop. And then they feel intense negative emotions usually afterwards, like guilt and shame about their eating, and it happens over and over again.

So it’s more than just like, oh, I had an extra chocolate bar. So I got curious about it because medicine didn’t give me good ways to deal with it. And I started using the coaching tools that I’d built or that I’d learned and starting to apply them to [00:07:00] binge eating.

And as I got a better handle on it and understanding of how it functions and what actually works I’ve talked more and more about it because nobody talks about binge eating. Binge eating is one of those things that people suffer in silence and literally probably most people with binge eating have never told a single soul, including like they hide it from partners.

They do not discuss it with friends. It is. One of the biggest secrets of their life for a lot of people. And so being able to use my voice and talk about it openly to start to de shame it, I think is really important. .

Yeah, that’s great. It’s one of my favorite things about this whole online coaching space that we’re in. Like you, you said that you didn’t feel that you learned a lot about it in medicine. People are kind of ashamed to talk about it. You saw that need and then you can go and develop this and help people out there who didn’t really have a resource before.

I’m curious too. You’ve mentioned obviously your professional history. Are you still practicing? Yeah, practicing. At all? Or is this your full time gig now? This online coaching? What’s that look like for you?[00:08:00]

No, I still, I’m a practicing physician, so in my brain I say it’s halftime in my office, but it’s not actually halftime. It’s more than halftime at the end of the day. So I still do, like, see patients in the office and in the hospital and all that. then I have a few half days a week where I dedicate it to content creation and doing the things for the coaching business.

So is that something you would ever consider shifting? Or it’s a goal? Or you like how things are now? Or you, you required to, you know, how does that look for you, say, in the future? Hmm.

myself this lots, and it’s possible in the future I, I would reduce it or possibly shift over. Right now, though, I still like medicine I still enjoy it and get a lot of satisfaction from helping people, and our system definitely needs physicians to stay in it, particularly family physicians in the community and I’m in an amazing practice with, like, [00:09:00] amazing practice partners.

So, for now, I’m happy with this, this kind of mix, but it’s nice to have that option that if something goes sideways or like I, you know, really get burnt out and I’m just not interested anymore, I don’t have to stay. I’ve got other options.

Yeah. You’ve put in these years of building this up. So you’ve got that. That’s great. And I was curious too, with the way you run this, is it just you at the center of this business or do you have a team or an assistant?

It’s pretty lean. I have one assistant and she’s been with me for quite a few years now, which is awesome. Um, for anybody who’s doing the business side, it took me a while to find her. Like, I think it’s a little bit like dating where you have to try things out and have one’s not fit, which was really frustrating when that was happening.

And then I have a very part time casual assistant. Assistant that’s doing the social media cause those are the things that are hard when I’m balancing medicine and the business is like remembering to get things posted and [00:10:00] scheduled for social media or like having time to create graphics and stuff.

And so she does that stuff for me and she goes through and repurposes my content cause every single episode I’ve done I’ve written an email for and so I have like All this content that was just sitting and not being used at all. And so she’s been going through and taking the tips and the information out and repurposing it into social media.

Yeah. That’s a great thing about podcasting is you can kind of just focus on making those episodes and then have a team. or systems in place where they can repurpose that into other mediums. And it doesn’t really take any extra effort from you beyond that initial setup. And it makes a lot of sense to have that as well.

And especially being a practicing physician, you don’t need to be on Canva at night making images. Like that’s definitely something that’s delegatable.

a Canva though. I miss it when I’m not doing it, but man, it can take a lot of time.

Mm hmm.

I do enjoy that creation time, but you have to give up some things if you’re going to, [00:11:00] balance everything. You can’t do it all. I did it all for a lot of years.

Yeah, I’m sure we all have that feeling as entrepreneurs. So now that we have a, an understanding of the business, the podcast, let’s talk a bit about the marketing specifically. So you mentioned originally that one of your, the biggest reasons you started the podcast was to use it to generate leads.

How is all of this looking these days? Is the podcast a substantial portion of your lead generation or is it social media? What is your, your whole marketing funnel look like? Let’s say, let’s start there.

Yeah, so, it’s interesting and mine is probably a little bit different than other people, partly because of the topic I talk about. So, a lot of, what I podcast is, is It’s nurturing is the big rule. So, like I mentioned, physicians have so much shame, and anybody who listens to the podcast who has, like, emotional eating or weight concerns, often there’s a whole lot of shame.

And it makes it [00:12:00] difficult for them to take another step and, you know, Sign up for a program. So, especially because most of them have done all sorts of different diets and different things and felt like they failed them all. So the podcast role is really helping people understand how this is different and, and to give them hope and inspire them that it can be different.

As well as I think there’s a lot of people that listen to the podcast that I’ll never ever join my coaching programs, but get a lot of benefit from it. And so I like that it’s a form that. The people who want to work with you get kind of called in from it, but also it offers so much value to people in general and it’s there for anybody who wants it.

Most lead generation that I’ve done has been mainly paid advertising. Thank you. And that’s an intentional choice because I don’t have the time to put into organic marketing and all the organic stuff.

And so I’ve looked at it and just made the decision that I’m going You’re [00:13:00] going to just invest more money than somebody else might in order to get those leads, but my package is, it’s a higher end coaching package, so it kind of balances itself out.

All right.

The one thing with that is Facebook’s algorithms are all changing.

They’re advertising algorithms, and it’s actually getting much harder to truly target the people you’re wanting to target. So Like I’m trying to just show ads to female physicians and I’ve, I track percent of how many for leads, how many physicians they are. And the percent of physicians Facebook’s actually bringing in is much, much smaller than a year ago.

 So that’s my current conundrum is deciding what I’m going to do about that.

Right. Yeah. Well, I love the point you brought up about the high ticket offer because that makes a lot of sense and allows us to do marketing, you know, paid ads, podcasting, whatever it is, but always interesting to hear things are evolving. And we can get pulled in different directions to as entrepreneurs.

You can maybe hear that podcasting is [00:14:00] the end all be all solution. Someone else says that organic social is a solution and someone else has paid ads as a solution. Right. Reality, nothing is that easy. Like you’re, you’re presenting the

challenges of the paid ads, right?

None of it

Yeah. Yeah. There’s, there’s no quick fix to any of this.

So, and you mentioned the content repurposing too. So you’re obviously doing a bit of organic social and some email. Are you seeing any traffic or you, do you have a way to even know, like if people are coming, say through emails as well, or where, where would you say most of them are, is it the paid ads?

Most people do come from.

that’s how they originally get on my list. In general for my, my business, there’s a fair lag from when they come onto my list to when they actually join the program. so often they come onto the list through a paid ad and then participate in one or multiple of my free things I’ve offered before they actually join.

Most of the applications to the program come from the email list. And What I find is [00:15:00] consistently generation is really important because of that delay. So bringing new people in so that there’s always people kind of moving through different stages is important. And that’s honestly been a challenge this past, since January, just because of the things I’ve used for that consistently generation just aren’t functioning in the same way.

And so that’s, I’m contemplating kind of shifting my business model a little bit. Not to get rid of, like, I love working with physicians. It’s, very rewarding for me, and I believe strongly in that, but creating more avenues where if Facebook’s not getting me only physicians, I can still generate revenue from other people and help them

right. Yeah. It was curious too. You mentioned like the paid ads and some, some freebies. Do you have like a a lead magnet that you’re using the paid ads to go to, or what is the actual paid ad typically driving traffic to, for you?

Yeah, in general, the one I’ve used most over the [00:16:00] years, I’ve had lots of different ones, is evening overeating for physicians. So it’s a webinar that is about the evening eating, and then puts them into a, an email sequence. And I’ve done it all, like, over the years, all different forms. So Evergreen, and Live, and All the, all the different ways.

And then the other one that I use kind of back and forth is, um, three surprising habits that drive overeating for physicians. That one’s a PDF

Yeah. It’s interesting to hear the results of all this testing and so many things for all of us over the years that didn’t work, probably didn’t know why, and then arriving at what does work and going with that, which is great, which leads me to my next question. I know timelines are fuzzy here, but do you recall, like how long once you started the business and podcast, what was the period of time where you felt like there wasn’t much engagement?

And then you finally got to feeling like, Hey, there’s a bit of an audience here. Or was it right from the start? [00:17:00] Yeah.

to people, like before I started the podcast, I listened to a lot of online marketing people and pot, like how to start podcasts and stuff. And I had this belief, I think, never having done anything entrepreneurial before, I should be really clear and like starting a podcast and putting myself out there as a coach was a giant leap.

But I thought that people would hear, Oh, like she’s obesity medicine and, and just everybody would come swarming in. It doesn’t actually work that way, surprisingly. So it took a while I feel like a few months at the beginning before I started to get some coaching clients. And I remember like those first episodes, it was like 10 people have listened to an episode.

Like it was such a big And I remember like picking up steam, by the fall of 2019

and then in the beginning of the pandemic was the first time I did a group program because what I was hearing from physicians is everybody was home and all of a sudden their eating was out of [00:18:00] control and they were regaining weight if they’d lost it or gaining more if they hadn’t lost it. And so I did a six week program called stress eating SOS.

 And that’s the program I ran for, I feel like at least a couple of years. And it was really focused on stress eating. And then I developed Thrive Academy, which has all the same concepts, but it’s a little bit broader, more about like living your best life rather than just stop stress eating.

Interesting. Yeah. It seems like the natural evolution for coaching businesses like this is you start one on one, move up to group. It’s more efficient. And I think it’s just, it’s great for the members as well, because you’re just getting to connect with that many more people and hear their stories.

I really think learning is better in the group. I wasn’t convinced of that when I first went to group. But there’s just, stuff naturally comes up that if you’re doing one on one, you may never have thought to talk to that person about.

And so they get far more. And, you know. We learn differently when we’re watching somebody else get coached and listening than when you’re in a direct [00:19:00] conversation with a coach. And I think groups give you that opportunity to benefit from both.

, absolutely. I got a couple more questions them. We’ll wrap up just about the podcast. One thing I was curious about, a common thing we hear a lot these days for people that are growing their podcasts is they like to do guest appearances on other podcasts. Now, I don’t know, is this something that you have pursued or are you just doing your own thing on your show?

I have, I think it’s amazing, like, being on other people’s podcasts boosts my downloads more than having, , famous people on my podcast. The challenge is the time to find other podcasts and pitch yourself to them. And so over the year, like last year, essentially I did none.

I just didn’t have the time or capacity. It was a super busy year. And so I’m working on building that back up, but I, there’s huge value to

Okay. That’s good. Yeah. It’s very interesting to hear that you notice that helps you more than than having a big guest on [00:20:00] your podcast. Very, very interesting data, real world data, which is a great segue into another question. I was curious about for you. Correct me if I’m wrong, but were you not doing a lot more guest episodes at one point?

And now you’re doing a lot more solo?

And that’s a factor of life. So like, again just the More than a year was really hard from a work standpoint and I had to spend a lot more time over in my medical practice. So my capacity to think about like, oh, who could be a good guest and talk to them and schedule interviews just like evaporated.

And so I just made the decision, like I kept the podcast going, which I’m really proud of. But I just didn’t have the ability to. And so now that things have settled down a bit I’m back to working on bringing on more interviews cause I, I love interviews. Like it’s so much fun to meet people and it’s been honestly one of the best things about having a podcast is I’ve gotten to meet and talk to people that I never ever [00:21:00] would have.

And have made some really good friends in the process. So I miss that over this, that past year where I essentially, I think I almost had no interviews. I really miss that connection piece. It felt maybe a little isolating, like you’re kind of talking into a bit of a void and not always getting feedback

Mm hmm. Yeah. That’s interesting to hear. There are a lot of benefits to both doing solo episodes and doing interviews. And we see a lot these days that people are finding the best is a balance between both. uh

Original like kind of general template was two or three of me and then an interview. And I think, you know, for those of you listening who are, have a podcast or thinking about starting one what I would take away from this past year is like, it’s okay for it to be flexible.

That’s one of the beauties of it is I had a lot of sort of perfectionist thoughts about what it should look like. And I had to work through that of like, actually, it’s okay if, I just changed the format a little bit to do what I can do and still get it out there. I had to be kind to [00:22:00] myself and I just decided, you know what, I’m almost at 300 episodes. If people want to hear from me, there’s so much they can listen to.

And then now, again, now I’m back to working on a weekly. It did have an impact on downloads so did not advertising. Like, my Facebook ads, even though they’re a lead magnet, not directly podcast, they do increase podcast downloads when I’m, you know, running them. So not running ads and then not always having weekly.

My downloads did drop and we’re just working on building it back up.

Yeah, like you said sometimes life gets in the way the consistency is definitely important So it’s a good consideration you kind of know if I have to let this go for a bit I’m gonna be climbing back uphill here So yeah, it’s always good to keep in mind as a podcaster, especially with you being 300 episodes in, that’s a lot of momentum, a lot of content that you’ve built up and the audience, yes, if you disappear for long enough, you will notice it’s not the

same size when you come back.

So leading into our last question here, [00:23:00] you said you like Canva, you kind of enjoy things like that, even though you know, maybe we should delegate some things that we just enjoy doing. One thing that I know you did delegate was the podcast production process. So you started out like a lot of people with your podcast, you were doing it on your own and there came to a point where you didn’t want to do that anymore.

Do you remember exactly what was going through your head when you made that decision that I don’t want to do this anymore. Someone else has to do it. What was that about?

Yeah. It was becoming unsustainable, the amount of effort I had to put in per podcast. And like when you think you’re doing it weekly, it was like this recurrent amount of.

Fairly routine work, right? And so that one was fairly easy for me to give up. I think the hardest part was investing money in it. Honestly, like that belief that, okay, it’s worth paying money per podcast episode to not have that work on my plate.

And again, that took me a little bit to find somebody, like, I tried some assistants doing it, tried some different things before [00:24:00] I ended up hiring you, but it was a really good decision, ,

well, that was really insightful. I really appreciate it. Especially some of the data that you shared and the results that you’re seeing over the years so thank you so much for sharing that with us.

And the website is weight solutions for physicians. ca. We will link to that your socials and your podcast all in the show notes. And I appreciate your time.

Thank you so much for having me.