The Realities of Combining Passion and Business with Gena Bradshaw Vitale

Do you wish you could just share your health and wellness knowledge to help the world and not have to deal with the business owner side of things? That’s a common feeling amongst many entrepreneurs who just want to do the thing that they love.

But the reality is we’ve gotta deal with the business side too, especially in the beginning. Now, none of that has stopped. Today’s guest who has tackled entrepreneurship head on surviving cancer twice is part of Gena Bradshaw’s motivation. To help others live well and share their gifts with the world.

She does this through her business and podcast, holistic human performance. IN our chat, Gena highlights the importance of in-person networking and speaking events for her, the role that writing a book played in getting her business off the ground, and the importance of seeing entrepreneurship as a long-term game.

Also, I will acknowledge the elephant in the room for this episode. Audio issues happen to the best of us, and on my audio for this, there is some light, uh, clicking and skipping that I was not aware of that was happening during the recording session. We only noticed after the fact. Unfortunately, sometimes you just can’t fix certain things, and this is one of those cases,

it’s not too bad, but, uh, I just have to at least acknowledge why a podcast production company has an issue with the audio. You just have to go with it when these things happen. You know, I tell clients that all the time. We do our best to make sure they capture good recordings, but every now and then when you’re dealing with technology.

It’s just what happens. So let’s roll with it. It’s really not that bad, but I just want to bring it up here. Here we go.

I’m Joel Oliver, and this is Profits through Podcasting. Gena, welcome in.

Hi. Nice to meet you.

Yeah, you too. I think we’re gonna have a lot to talk about today. I think we should start just by establishing a bit about you and who you are, your business. So let’s hear about the business specifically, holistic human performance. When and why did

you start that business?

Alright, so here’s the, the journey of it personally. My why, I’m a two time cancer survivor and throughout my own journey I really learned the importance of health. And if you don’t have your health, you don’t have anything. If throughout that journey learning that it also wasn’t solely about just like fitness, nutrition, and sleep, it’s much deeper than that.

It had me posing the question of. What actually is health? Like, what does that actually mean and how can someone achieve optimal health? Because you see people all the time who work out really, really hard and you know, they’re, they live this like active lifestyle, but they still get sick. So my question was, what else are like we missing?

And throughout my own journey of just healing and experience and, and doing the work for myself to. Feel great and and thrive in life. I stumbled upon like energy medicine and eastern medicine and honestly, things that we were not taught growing up. At least I wasn’t, I won’t speak for everyone, but I noticed, you know, it’s not things that we’re getting taught in school and I said, Hmm, this is very interesting, you know.

We have all of these different puzzle pieces of what I call them the five buckets. So mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, and energetic. And energetic is what ties all of those buckets together. And so if you’re someone, for example, who if very high strung living in, you know, chronic stress and survival mode, but you’re still like exercising and things, it still does make you susceptible to disease.

Because it’s energetic. And so that’s kind of really where I started to come from and throughout my journey of like, I saw that when I started to implement and integrate these simple, holistic, daily tools like meditation, breathing, properly positive thinking, getting outside of nature more, which I always, that was always a part of my life.

Just, you know, being more intentional, an intentional lifestyle, and. I said to myself, more people need to know this. And I started receiving the same questions. Like I started being asked the same question. So I said, you know what? I’m going to write a book about this. And so it started off with a book called A Survivor Story, A Holistic Healing Journey through Cancer.

And it brings, it’s like a guide. It brings people through my own journey, but also I combine the science and spirituality aspect of it and help people kind of be like, Hey. Even if you are doing this, you can also do this and you don’t have anything to lose. Like it’s going to help you and here’s the research to prove it.

And so it all started with my first book, which was published in 2021. And for me it was very cathartic. It was very healing. So when I published it, I didn’t realize the impact that it would actually have. And now. You know, this wasn’t my goal, but now it’s an a, a, a bestselling book.

It’s like it, it won an award. So I, it was pretty cool how, you know, my intention was really just to add value to other people’s lives. And then from there I had this feeling, okay, there’s more, like there’s more for me to do. And that’s where holistic human performance was born, a year later in 2022. And, you know, it just turned into something so.

honestly, like, I, I don’t even think I could have dreamed this of, of what it’s turned into. So I’m really happy about that. And again, it’s to help people reclaim their health, transform their lives, and find their soul’s mission and purpose along the way. I have found that health and purpose are directly correlated.

You cannot have one without the other. It just doesn’t work. Even if you think about it yourself, like. If you’re feeling unfulfilled, you probably don’t feel your best and you’re probably suffering in some aspect of your health. And so that’s what I found on the discovery and that is what I bring to other people and, and help people with.

And that’s, you know, where we’re at today with holistic human performance.

Great. Okay. That’s a great backstory. Before all of that, were you into health and wellness at all or like what were you

doing at that point? What was your background? I.

Yes. So my background is exercise science. I grew up in a family where, you know, health, fitness, and wellness was number one. I. My parents are entrepreneurs as well. We, again, have a family fitness business and I thought that I was gonna be in that segue of like fitness, nutrition, sport, performance, kind of like the foundational aspect of it.

And that was like my goal and something just when I was going through, I call it like my awakening when I was going through it, it, kind of dawned on me that this is not. Where I’m meant to be going with it. Like I’m meant to go deeper with it. So that’s where I started with everything and I was an athlete myself.

I ran track and field in college and, I just started to, I started to notice that when people would come to me and they’d be like, oh, I’m looking to like. Gain more lean muscle tissue and like lose weight and do this and do that. And then I would start to realize that there’s a much deeper root to people wanting to lose weight, get healthy.

And it’s not just so surface level that people think. And that’s kind of what opened the doors for me and started obviously like my own journey, but then I started to realize it, the pattern in society and why people, have such a problem. Let’s just say for example. Losing weight, right? Why did they struggle with that their whole lives?

Why is it a a yo-yo? Why is this an issue? And so that is something that I really took notice of. But my background is fitness, nutrition and sport performance. so I bring it a little bit deeper with the, the holistic lifestyle.

Let’s just bring the podcast into the picture. Now before we move on and learn more about how the business runs, tell us a little bit about that. I think you started it in 2023. Why did you start that podcast and what

kind of content are you putting out there on it? I.

Yeah, so I’ve been podcasting since, I think it was like 2018 or 2019. I started off with actually my parents with our family fitness business and then Covid happened, so we were going to different, facilities, sport performance facilities and interviewing the owners and talking about, you know, how did you develop this?

Like what’s your business model? And just like learning all that stuff. And then Covid happened, so we started doing it online and then life gets in the way and we stopped podcasting. And I started doing my own thing. And then along the journey, had another co-host. Did another podcast that was really cool.

You know, you like learn all of these different things and then, you know, we kind of just like went our separate ways, doing our own thing. Especially when I really got into holistic human performance and then I’ve always just loved podcasting. It’s just like fun for me and

my main goal, especially kind of jumping ship from one community. To another, you know, ’cause the holistic community is much different than sport performance and fitness and nutrition. And wellness of course. So I kind of jumped, jumped into this new community and I’m like, what’s the best way to meet people who are the best in their industry and learn?

And I was like, podcasting. So I, I, I started a podcast based off of that and I’ve, like, for me it was just more fun and just to, to interview really awesome people who are really great, who add value. And it turned into something where I was like, okay, am I gonna, you know, stick with solo episodes, am I gonna do guests?

And it really, like, I have a couple of solo episodes, but I mean, I get. Five pitches a day from different, all, all over the globe. And it is the coolest thing ever to learn, to meet new people, to become friends with people and just, and even like, collaborate in business with others. So it’s become something that I’m like, oh, okay, this is, this is turned into something really cool and I’m gonna continue.

Mm-hmm. That’s great. Yeah. A lot of people would like to be in that situation where they’re getting pitched. Now, when you started, did you have to do a lot of that work yourself and go try to find these guests, whereas

now more so they just come to you? I.

Yes, yes. I had to originally start off kind of, okay, how does it work? Like, I’ve done podcasting before, but It’s a different type of business, honestly. And you know, you’re learning the ropes so. I knew I had like a couple of people that I had hit contacted, and I’m all about the story.

I’m all about like somebody’s story, how they got into it. And I said, all right, I have a couple of people here and I remember I had this I. This one individual, Dr. Perry Nicholson. He’s called the Lymph Doc. And I was like so nervous to pitch him to come onto the podcast. He was like one of my biggest guests at that point.

And he said yes and came on, and I was like, oh, okay, this is cool. And then honestly, after that, once I started gaining some, like, you know, bearings in that. Industry. All of a sudden I started to get like pitches and I started being like, Hmm, this is interesting. Okay, cool. And then it kind of just developed into something, so grand that I’m like getting all these pitches per day.

I’m like having trouble keeping up with them, to be honest. But it’s really cool.

That’s great to hear. I’m curious too, with that doctor that you, you pitched

how did you go about that?

So I had been personally a big fan of him. And I knew his background, like we had a commonality. We both had thyroid cancer and the work that he does is so. Aligned with what I do in terms of like holistic health, wellness and things like that. And I, I simply just pitch him and said, Hey, like, you know, I’m also a cancer survivor.

I know about your story. I think it’s incredible the work that you do. I’m a big, you know, fan, I would love to interview you on my podcast. And he said yes. So it’s pretty simple. You just gotta put yourself out there, you know.

Let’s talk a bit more about the business. You gave us the backstory. We know you’ve got a lot going on there, but I. Who specifically say is your ideal client? What exactly are you offering?

How do

you deliver it? Let’s hear a bit about that.

Yeah, so basically the way that I modeled holistic human performance is kind of what you would consider hybrid. So I do mostly online, but also in person like events and workshops and things like that. However,

I.

pretty much created like an umbrella, so it’s holistic human performance. I have the Holistic Human Performance podcast.

I have the holistic human performance app. I have One-on-one coaching and healing services. And then I have the digital and physical products. And so over time, obviously I didn’t start out with all of this. I originally started out with doing one-on-one coaching specifically. Those people who are looking to create more of a holistic lifestyle and also who are into spirituality, and really they want to create long lasting change in their lifestyle.

So I’m that person that kind of these individuals have been through the ringer and back with like Western medical model and they’re like, I’m I, I give up. Like I don’t even know who else to talk to. I don’t know where else to go. And then they come find me and we go over. Okay. What’s your goal?

What are you looking to accomplish with your health? What’s the lifestyle you’re looking to accomplish? And then we kind of take it with those five buckets that I was telling you about earlier, that’s like my core teaching with everything that I do. And I originally started off with like the one-on-one coaching and healing and also digital courses because again, I was getting.

So many of the same questions, and I just, I, I said, okay, let me like create this in just like this evergreen model where I did prerecorded digital courses. So it started off with that. Now I knew that I wanted to be mostly online. I knew that I wanted to do that. So I think that that’s a really great starting point with anyone who’s looking.

To do this type of work? Like do you wanna be mostly in person? Do you wanna stick with just one-on-one? I think that’s the great and obviously like who is your people? Who are you speaking to? That then developed into a need of what I noticed individuals asking. Once they got their health in order and they started to develop, they became more of like this clear channel to actually tap into.

Oh wait, I don’t really like what I’m doing, you know, whether it be career or I want to get into entrepreneurship. And so I also work with entrepreneurs in terms of those who are really just burnt out, tired. They wanna develop you know, more of a spiritual wellness business. They don’t know where to start.

They don’t have the systems in place. And I go over a lot of the energetics of business and entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is a spiritual game. And so that’s what I started to recognize. And so I serve those two different individuals, whether they wanna start off with their health or they’re entrepreneurs and they’re looking to also improve their health, but also find purpose and follow their soul’s mission and purpose.

And then from there, I kind of just built. I really just listened to what people were telling me. They’re like, this is what I need. And I’m like, oh, okay. Let’s create a, a, a wellness journal. Or let’s create a gratitude journal. And so I created those different physical products that I.

People could easily just be like, okay, let me, let me just get this, this is an easy tool that I could use because I personally found, I don’t know about you, but obviously you know, somebody who holds space for other people. If you wanna grow in business or whatever aspect, like you gotta invest in yourself.

So, you know, having coaches, mentors, healers, that taught me a lot. And I also noticed that I. I guess you could say I wasn’t finding exactly what I needed, although I had some great coaches. I personally like it when someone, let’s just say if we’re doing a coaching session, and let’s just say, I’m like, okay, homework.

You’re gonna do this, this, and this. Okay, great. Where am I getting that? Where am I getting that information? So I said, let, I wanna create an app for individuals who. We’re doing coaching sessions together, and let’s just say if they’re going through. A lot of anger, for example, okay, here’s what you’re gonna do.

You’re gonna go into the app and you’re going to do the breath work for anger. So all of these different tools that help integrate into their lives very easily and simply without being overwhelming or anything of the sorts. So that’s kind of how I develop the business model. My goal is to make it as easy and.

Integrative as possible because it’s one thing if I’m telling you to do something, but if you’re not actually doing it, it’s not gonna work. It’s a waste of your money. So I’m about the integration tool, and so that’s where I created these different physical and digital products to help integrate into the life.

that leads me to another question that I, I want to get to, but to start something interesting I’ve noticed over the years, you know, as I became enlightened on my journey of, of learning about health and wellness is I. This, this whole holistic thing. You know, there was a time in my life where that was just, to me it was just whatever, like, I don’t know what that is, or meditation. I don’t know. That’s not for me and doesn’t make any sense. But I would keep encountering these people, and I find this from you as well, where have this energy about them. This presence and I’m thinking, what is, like, who’s with this person? Let me find out. And every single time it was something they, they worked in holistic wellness or they had been practicing it or something. So I’d seen so many examples of that over the years that led me to kind of see the benefits of stuff.

So it’s interesting, I noticed like the second that you joined this call as well, I got that vibe from you, like, like I’ve seen with so many people before and I had to know. What’s going on? How do I do what you’re doing? You know, I want to be like that. So that’s an interesting observation. But then what I’m leading to is through your presence, I’ve seen here you’re very, very passionate about all this stuff.

Like you’re so eager to share what you’ve learned and help people. I’m curious, how did you feel about having to take that passion and develop a business around it? It seems like you have enjoyed every step, but were there any frustrations? Where you felt like, I just want to share, but I’ve, I’ve gotta, I’m forced to work on this business stuff. You know? ’cause you can’t just share, you gotta actually have the business surrounding it. Was that a frustration or a challenge for you, or have you enjoyed

that part as well?

Oh no, it was a challenge. You know, I, I would consider myself more of like a creative and also, yes. Thank you. I appreciate it. I’m very passionate. And I think that. The hardest part, you know, it’s not like I went to business school, like I took some classes and stuff, but it’s not like I went to business school and as an entrepreneur, when you start, you’re wearing all the hats.

Like you’re wearing all the hats, you’re doing all the learning. It was, it’s not easy, and I don’t care what anybody says to you, it’s hard. You’re wearing all of the hats, you’re learning all of the things you will eventually get to a point of delegating those tasks. Yes. But in the beginning, I mean, unless you have like investors of some sort, which I knew that I don’t know about you, but for me, I, I didn’t wanna go that route for some reason.

I don’t know why. I just didn’t wanna go that route and. I think like what made me a little bit more, I don’t know, I guess you could say fearful about going all in, would be if I, you know, had these investors and then, you know, you have to like pay them back and then like, what if this doesn’t actually work out kind of thing.

But that is part of the journey as well, of course. But for me, I just knew that it was gonna work out. Like I’m, I just. I just knew on a soul level that it was gonna work out. And same with you. I had noticed interviewing all these people, they’re all saying the same thing, right? Like, what, where, how did they get to this point in life?

And all of them, it, it didn’t happen overnight, right? You see all of these su successful people, like they always leave clues and it didn’t happen overnight. 5, 10, 20, 30 years, you know, some of these people are, are living the lifestyle and doing the thing for 30 plus years, and you think that you’re gonna be where they’re at overnight.

And it’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s not happening. Maybe, you know what, maybe miraculously it might happen for like one out of however many people, but most of it is just not how it goes. Entrepreneurship is a long-term game, and when you have that mindset and you are willing and eager to learn and you’re finding solutions to a problem and you’re saying, Hey, I have the answer.

That’s your North star, your why is your North Star, and I just keep aligning to that and your business will change over time. So I never tried to, in the beginning though, I definitely was like more tightly gripped. I’m like, no, it has to be this way. I definitely loosened that because it’s developed into something that’s like so much bigger than I could ever have dreamed of to be honest.

But at the same time, it is. Not an easy game, and it’s personal development on crack. So you have to be willing to really just dive into it. And I always tell entrepreneurs, you know, if you’re just getting into the game, even if you’ve been in for a while and you’re just like burnt out from your own business, you need to reevaluate what your values are.

 And it’s because of my own health journey too, like, being a cancer survivor and, and trying to make sure I live a life that is in accordance to just my own health needs and non-negotiables. Like what kind of lifestyle do you wanna live?

So I think that’s the key aspect, like what kind of lifestyle do you wanna live? And then building a business around that. And I think that’s really helped me out a lot.

I’m glad that you brought up that it takes time. But the important thing is, like you, you’re saying it can happen. know, so many people just get so frustrated and give up way too early, but it does happen. If you just put in this effort and manage to stick, stick with it like you’ve done and I’ve done and people listening still.

So, that’s great, great insight. Let’s hear a bit about your actual leads that you’re getting. ’cause you’re clearly doing well, you’re able to help people. Where are most of the people coming from nowadays that you end up

working with as customers?

I would say it’s actually a pretty good combination of online, but also I think people who I wanna make this point. A lot of people who are solely online, I think might solely rely on the fact, or maybe they see other people like, oh, they have lots of followers. That’s probably where they’re getting all their leads from.

That’s not totally accurate. I think that, you know, even having solely an online business. You need to, to go network, like get out live life, like meet people. A lot of the times, the outings that I go to, whether it’s just to have fun or you know, networking. I’m getting leads from those. And it’s solely just from kind of like what you said, like, oh, your energy.

Oh, how did you get there? Like, what’s happening here? And they ask questions and then I start to talk and they’re like, I’m intrigued. Tell me more. And so I’m getting a good combination, I would say, from both social media. The podcast for sure helps. And in person, like events and things like that.

For sure. Like whether I’m speaking or you know, doing networking. I would say it’s a good combination of, of those,

mm-hmm.

So you do speaking gigs as well.

yes.

And

how do those come about?

Let’s see. Well, I pitched myself, all right, so I’ve been doing, speaking unintentionally for a very long time. I’ll tell you a funny story. So my mom. Thought she was cute and we laugh about it now. At the time it was not funny. So I did two very big speaking events at age 13 and, at age 16.

At age 13. I didn’t even think about it. It was like, so not, I, like, I don’t even, I barely remember it. I just did it kind of thing. I was th I didn’t even know, you know, anything about it. I had like, my, my speech written out. It was, whatever. Actually, George Ross from The Apprentice was a guest, a guest there.

So it was all though for children’s Medical Foundation. So I always have been giving back to the cancer community. And then come along age 16 and I got an opportunity where they contacted my parents. Again, this was children’s Medical Foundation and it was at Cipriani’s in New York City.

Over a thousand business men and women. So we have Elvis Costello in the crowd, we have Ray Romano and we have Melania Trump in the crowd, and I did not know any of this, so my mom was like, no big deal. It’s the same as like that speech you did when you were 13, okay, cool. I walk in and I’m not even kidding you.

I don’t know if you’ve ever been to this, this cipriani’s. I walk in, there are, I don’t know, maybe three or four big plasma screen TVs where my face would be plastered on. And mind you, I’m a teenage girl, so that was just fearful in itself. And I had braces and everything and I’m looking at all the seating, I’m like.

I’m not doing this. Are you insane? My mom goes, oh, you’re getting up there and you’re doing it. And so it was kind of like forced, but I did it and it ended up being like, fantastic. And I, I prepared well for that. Of course, like my aunt she was an English teacher, so she helped me write up my speech or whatever.

And that was one of the scariest moments of my life, honestly. And so that, that prompted just like. Listen, it was a natural, I guess, ability that I just, a gift, I can’t even describe that. I’m grateful, although at the time it was super scary for my parents to push me and do that, but I did it and it kind of opened up other doors for speaking because then you kind of like have this on your resume kind of thing.

So if you ever did wanna get into speaking later on down the road which I knew I wanted to that’s kind of where it opened up. And then I. Just from there, kind of like writing and speaking became something that I was into even when I was in the fitness industry. One of my first big, articles was in men’s fitness journal.

And it was all about sprinting and running and all the different metabolic systems, so different style of writing, but it again. Paid off for where I’m at today. And then I had a really big, just like I had some other speaking opportunities, and then I had a really big opportunity,

it was. Equivalent to like a TED Talk and it’s called Speak Events. It was fantastic. And again, I put myself out there. I, I don’t know what came over me. I was just, my friend had told me about them and I was like, oh, cool. Like, let me, let me hit them up. And so I, I pitched them and a couple, I probably two months later I heard from them, they were like.

Okay, we’re doing something called Speak Events Health. You would be perfect. You have two weeks to create a speech and practice. And by the way, you can’t have any note cards or anything on stage. You have to just speak. I was like, okay. And I just said yes before I could like get in my own way. And it ended up being phenomenal.

It was one of the best, scariest experiences, but I prepared, they coached you through it. And then we were able to do like a, we did like a live podcast after on stage with all of the speakers, which was really cool. So, yeah, that’s how it kind of like my speaking kind of unfolded. And then from there I’ve just been doing a lot of it.

sure, there’s people out there who feel like. Maybe they want to do that, but they don’t feel that they have that capability. Or maybe they don’t have the, the energy or charisma of someone like yourself who’s been doing this or they don’t have that moment where they were thrown on stage at 16. What would you say to them? Some tips maybe to get started because you’re clearly showing that there are a lot of benefits that are coming from

you being out there in this way.

Practice. You have to practice and put yourself out there. As scary as it is, actually, there was a statistic that I read that is actually more fear driven than death. I. And so, I would say practice. There’s a really good, they’re all over the country. They’re called Toastmasters and you can go in there and you can just practice any chance you get any opportunity where it’s like, Hey, do you wanna do like a workshop or like, even if it’s small, it doesn’t need to be these like big things on stage.

No, like even leading a class like that is public speaking. That’s a form of public speaking. And so. Any opportunity where you can practice and you can just, get out there and, and do it. It’s just like going to the gym.

You’re looking to gain more lean muscle tissue. I mean, are you gonna do that by sitting on your phone on the bench? No. You have to put in the reps. You have to practice. And this has been years of me practicing, you know, you it. Did not happen overnight. And podcasting helped me. So maybe like starting off with a podcast.

That is very helpful. Of course, it’s different in terms of like somebody, you know, you’re speaking in front of people in real time, but it’s a good start practicing maybe on social media. You’re, you don’t like to be, it’s this fear of being seen. Maybe you just start by filming yourself on social media, getting whatever information out there.

Practice being an authority figure. That’s key.

Great. Well, as we’re getting towards the end here, you’ve shown us how you grew your business. We’ve talked about, of course it takes time. It’s not gonna happen overnight, but. It sounds great. You know, we share these stories just sounds amazing. Like everything is perfect with what’s going on. So for someone who is, newer to this, they’re trying to build up their business and hearing this amazing story that you’re sharing, it’s important for them to know as well that they’re, you alluded to, there’s always challenges. What is the current challenge of yours, or at least a priority that you’re focusing on

in your business?

Yeah, I would say, you know, there’s always gonna be like these milestones in business, and I think one of the hardest things for me, and I feel like maybe you’ll. Appreciate this and feel this too is celebrating your wins. And when you hit that milestone, like, you know, I know for me it was like, okay, what’s next?

Okay, what’s next? And I think celebrating wins is so important because again, it shows that, hey, like I did it. Like this was an accomplishment. I did, and it’s a big deal, you know, and entrepreneurship can be very lonely. And that was one of the struggles I had too, it’s like the loneliness and like the community aspect and knowing that you’re not alone and you have other entrepreneurs that are out there also grinding it out and struggling.

And I also wanna say that just because it looks cute or nice online, it’s not. There’s a lot of grit behind it. Okay. There’s a lot of challenges. I’ve cried many times on the floor. And that’s okay. ’cause that’s, that’s part of the journey. You know, it’s kind of like I. What I like to describe it is like, what’s that growth edge?

And you, you start to find, and this is part of personal development, this is like the two go hand in hand. And how much can your nervous system handle? So that’s a lot of work that I do with individuals. Nervous system regulation, that’s like so basic and important, you know, if you don’t have the capacity to hold space for your own self.

You’re not gonna be able to do it with other people. So it’s so important to be able to fill up your cup and, and do the inner work. And even though it’s really daunting sometimes, and scary, I promise you, it gets better on the other side and then something else comes up and then it gets better. You do the work and it gets better on the other side.

So, it’s this spiral journey and evolution that’s never ending. There’s never a final destination, to be honest with you. It’s just like this journey that’s always evolving, always growing. And the most important part is to surrender and flow with it. We don’t wanna force, we wanna flow with it.

But again, it’s, it’s not easy. Um, But it’s so worth it. I don’t even know where I would be if I didn’t do this. Like, I, I don’t have a plan B, like, I don’t know.

It’s had to work.

Yeah.

Well, Gena, I appreciate your time. This has been extremely insightful. It’s a holistic human performance.co. The website will put that in the show notes, so people who are interested in maybe reaching out, you could hire you as a speaker or work with you, take out your podcast, all the resources you have.

So, thank you

so much.

Thank you. It was such a fun conversation.